Retrode Community Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shwing on 28/Aug/2017 08:05:50 PM

Title: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 28/Aug/2017 08:05:50 PM
Hey everyone,

I was wondering if anyone was able to make a PC Engine plug in based on the pin layouts given on the Retrode website? I'm hoping to buy one if possible so I can dump my PC Engine and Turbografx games.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: ssokolow on 31/Aug/2017 06:12:34 PM
I'd also be interested in buying a pre-built one.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 09/Sep/2017 03:40:40 PM
i was thinking of making them but im not sure how i would get the cartridge connector since the consoles are so expensive.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 09/Sep/2017 09:44:17 PM
https://twitter.com/famulator/status/819347184592162816 (https://twitter.com/famulator/status/819347184592162816)

It looks like this guy may have sold some connectors to db electronics. You might be able to check if he still has any available.

Edit: It looks like they're sold on Amazon Japan too.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B01NCLG45T (https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B01NCLG45T)
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 10/Sep/2017 06:14:56 AM
heres a render of a board ive designed but until i get the pc engine game i ordered i cant say for certain the connector pins are the right size etc but its a start.

removed image

i will change it up as i go, for example i will probs change the bridge points for something like dip switches so you can change back and forth.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 10/Sep/2017 04:08:19 PM
Would the adapter you designed be able to dump Turbografx games as well as PC Engine games? I believe the pinouts are slightly different based on the region.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 10/Sep/2017 05:03:55 PM
Would the adapter you designed be able to dump Turbografx games as well as PC Engine games? I believe the pinouts are slightly different based on the region.

from what i could see its just the data pins thats reversed so instead of data 0 to data 0 its data 0 to data 7 so you should be able too but of course it all needs testing.

ive redesigned it with dip switches this is what it looks like now:

removed image

when you turn all of the TG16 dips on you turn the PC Engine dips all off and vice versa.

i know the dips are in the way of the cart pins atm but this is all just a design right now.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 10/Sep/2017 06:27:03 PM
Awesome! I look forward to this adapter coming out. Hopefully you can contact the sellers and get the connectors in bulk.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 10/Sep/2017 06:36:27 PM
one i receive the pc engine card game i ordered i will have a better idea of the pins and see if i can perhaps find a easy to get connector that will work
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 15/Sep/2017 09:40:29 PM
a quick update on the TG16/PC Engine plugin i designed, ive changed up the connector to use 2 SIBF-20-F-S-AD connectors (slightly modified) which have the right pitch and will work i just gotta wait until i can order the boards for testing and receive the connectors.

Pictures:
(https://s25.postimg.org/inizmu9kb/TG16_PC_Engine_Plugin_Back.png) (https://s25.postimg.org/ks3cnxb73/TG16_PC_Engine_Plugin_Back.png)

(https://s25.postimg.org/3qailtwbv/TG16_PC_Engine_Plugin_Front.png) (https://s25.postimg.org/fs5wfz5kf/TG16_PC_Engine_Plugin_Front.png)

theres alot going on but it should do TG16 and PC Engine and it should be able to fit into a snes case and just for the hell of it ive added test points for all the connections that arent being used.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 16/Sep/2017 05:37:26 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to use vias instead so the PC Engine connector could just slot in?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 16/Sep/2017 04:46:08 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to use vias instead so the PC Engine connector could just slot in?
i dont have a pc engine or turbografx16 to get a connector from so im using 2 SIBF-20-F-S-AD which work and are not through hole.

i also dont have the library file (eagle) for the original connector so i cant do that currently. If you can help with this in anyway please let me know, i will see what i can do though.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 16/Sep/2017 10:38:42 PM
I actually have a spare HuCard connector from a broken PC Engine I bought. I have the original PCB it was connected to as well. Anything I can do with that?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 17/Sep/2017 03:19:29 AM
I actually have a spare HuCard connector from a broken PC Engine I bought. I have the original PCB it was connected to as well. Anything I can do with that?
what do you mean as far as what you can do with it?
also im looking into getting the files needed to add that connector too but without having one myself i just gotta see what i can do or stick with 2 SIBF-20-F-S-AD and modify them so they will work since they are easy to get but if you are talking about donating it to me i certainly wouldnt say no :D

but as i said if i can i will have it setup to use the original connector as well as those.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 17/Sep/2017 03:41:15 AM
Shwing if you wouldnt mind pm me some close up pics of the connector and maybe checkout how close it is to the game gear connector since from what i saw in pics it has that type of pin layout so if you can see if it matches it but has more or less pins that would be great and easy for me to then make the connector myself on eagle.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 17/Sep/2017 04:31:24 AM
I can take some pictures later but compared to the game gear each row of vias is the same distance apart. The two rows however are closer together than the game gear's rows.

I measured it and the distance between 1 and 2 is the same distance as 1 and 3.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 17/Sep/2017 04:38:57 AM
I can take some pictures later but compared to the game gear each row of vias is the same distance apart. The two rows however are closer together than the game gear's rows.

I measured it and the distance between 1 and 2 is the same distance as 1 and 3.

if possible send me some good pics and perhaps both next to each other and stuff like that, it would really help thanks
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 17/Sep/2017 10:24:42 PM
(https://abload.de/img/pinoutm0pvx.jpg)

Sorry for the crappy picture. The through holes are approx. 2.5mm apart all around on the PC Engine PCB.

If you make the PCB with the through holes I can order one to test with my connector.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 17/Sep/2017 11:52:46 PM

Sorry for the crappy picture. The through holes are approx. 2.5mm apart all around on the PC Engine PCB.

If you make the PCB with the through holes I can order one to test with my connector.

whats the distance between the bottom through holes and the top?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 12:18:56 AM
2.5mm between through holes 1 and 2.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 01:11:57 AM
2.5mm between through holes 1 and 2.
2.5mm from the top row to the bottom row? and what about from one pin to another on the same row.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 01:36:02 AM
2.5mm between through holes 1 and 2.
2.5mm from the top row to the bottom row? and what about from one pin to another on the same row.

Sorry about that. Its 3mm diagonal from 1 to 2. The ones next to each other are 2.5mm.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 03:21:14 AM
2.5mm between through holes 1 and 2.
2.5mm from the top row to the bottom row? and what about from one pin to another on the same row.

Sorry about that. Its 3mm diagonal from 1 to 2. The ones next to each other are 2.5mm.

thanks im getting there, now can you post an image of the entire row of pins since your first was cut off i want too see both rows in there entirety including where it tells you what pin the end ones are thank you.

Edit:
nm i think i got it
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 03:33:34 AM
(https://abload.de/img/pinout2aesnm.jpg)

Edit: oops well here it is anyways.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 03:54:22 AM

Edit: oops well here it is anyways.

thanks, hows this look:
(https://s25.postimg.org/x1i8k7my3/Turbo_Grafx-16_Slot_Pinout.png) (https://s25.postimg.org/djnl49q0f/Turbo_Grafx-16_Slot_Pinout.png)

the drill holes are the size i set for my sega card to master system slot and that fit perfectly and its basically the same.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 04:24:57 AM
Yeah that looks great actually!
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 07:34:11 AM
Yeah that looks great actually!

ok this is what i got so far:

(https://s25.postimg.org/rtx5fr6cr/Turbo_Grafx-16_Plugin_rev3.png) (https://s25.postimg.org/mv9n182jz/Turbo_Grafx-16_Plugin_rev3.png)

and this is what it looks like with the original slot laid over the top:

(https://s25.postimg.org/c9prp7w8b/Turbo_Grafx-16_Plugin_ofg.png) (https://s25.postimg.org/e1iqk4flb/Turbo_Grafx-16_Plugin_ofg.png)

it looks like now im gonna have to move the dip switches a little :D of course i just scaled this from an image so it could be wrong.
dips switches are just connecting one point to another so it would be possible to just solder them on the opposite side.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 03:58:13 PM
Awesome. When your finished I can order one and test it to make sure it works. What would I need to do to dump a PC Engine game vs a Turbografx game?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 05:01:41 PM
Awesome. When your finished I can order one and test it to make sure it works. What would I need to do to dump a PC Engine game vs a Turbografx game?
a pc engine game lol, but i dont know how the retrode will work with pc engine if its already setup to detect and work with turbografx then it will most likely show up as a turbografx rom and you just need to rename the extension.

but bare in mind this is still design stage and it will take be a while to get to the point where im happy to order some boards.

am working on multiple things at the same time for example im working on a vectrex plugin too which im waiting for stuff to arrive so i can see how the retrode handles that and then i will need to speak to someone who works on the firmware to add support for it if its gonna work and then im going to make others too.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 06:20:25 PM
Great! Well I look forward to all these projects you're working on.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 06:28:19 PM
Great! Well I look forward to all these projects you're working on.
its probs not possible but im aiming to have a plugin for every cartridge system excluding stuff like the nintendo ds because if i remember correctly that stuffs encrypted anyway.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 07:18:35 PM
Yeah that would be ideal. I wonder if the Neo Geo is even possible?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 07:31:51 PM
Yeah that would be ideal. I wonder if the Neo Geo is even possible?
which neo geo?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 08:12:56 PM
AES
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 08:29:50 PM
AES
its something i will look into in the future but that would be tough because the cartridges have two pcbs in them
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 18/Sep/2017 11:00:04 PM
Oh that's true. Completely forgot about that.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 18/Sep/2017 11:31:42 PM
Oh that's true. Completely forgot about that.

i will look into it at some point because i know the games can be dumped but because of the price of the games it will probs be last on my list.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 19/Sep/2017 05:54:25 AM
Would you know if there is a reliable way to dump 2600 games?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 19/Sep/2017 06:19:11 PM
Would you know if there is a reliable way to dump 2600 games?
yes i have the schematic for a 2600 plugin
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 19/Sep/2017 07:12:12 PM
Have you been able to test it?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 19/Sep/2017 08:01:08 PM
Have you been able to test it?
its from the retrode site so it should work but i havent got a 2600 game to test it.

Updated:
snes-2600.lbr (http://www.retrode.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/snes-2600.lbr)
2k6-0005.sch (http://www.retrode.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2k6-0005.sch)
2k6-0005.brd (http://www.retrode.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2k6-0005.brd)
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Matthias_H on 20/Sep/2017 04:35:22 PM
Those designs for the A2600 plugin were outdated at the time of your post; I just replaced them with a more recent version.

http://www.retrode.org/plug-in-adapters/
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 20/Sep/2017 07:36:46 PM
Thanks Matthias! I'll order one to test it out.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 20/Sep/2017 08:04:36 PM
Thanks Matthias! I'll order one to test it out.
where you gonna order from
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 20/Sep/2017 10:07:55 PM
DirtyPCBs probably. I think the OSHPark ones are too thick for this.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 20/Sep/2017 11:38:44 PM
DirtyPCBs probably. I think the OSHPark ones are too thick for this.
from what i remember dirtypcbs were expensive
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 20/Sep/2017 11:48:29 PM
What would you recommend?
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 21/Sep/2017 03:45:11 AM
What would you recommend?
i always use pcbway there boards are pretty high quality.

this is from the dirtypcbs website:
Where are my damn PCBs?
Your Gerbers will be sent to the factory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 10:00am China time. There's no point in doing it sooner because they'll just queue them at the factory... Rush orders are pushed hourly, on the hour.
The factory takes 3-8 days to manufacture the boards. They batch as they please, it's cheapest. If it's a holiday in China we'll let you know before you order!
Boards come back to us, we ship them the same day
Hong Kong Post takes 1 to 8+ weeks, depending on where you are
DHL/FEDEX/UPS take 2-5days, tracking is provided 12-48 hours after shipment


whats the point waiting the extra time when you can order direct.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 21/Sep/2017 06:52:06 AM
Good point. I'll check it out and hopefully I can find a few 2600 connectors.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 22/Sep/2017 01:07:19 AM
Good point. I'll check it out and hopefully I can find a few 2600 connectors.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/sullins-connector-solutions/EBC12DCWN/S3304-ND/927256
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 22/Sep/2017 05:04:52 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 22/Sep/2017 05:32:45 AM
Thanks!
no problem
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Elaneo on 13/Oct/2017 07:25:06 AM
What would you recommend?
i always use pcbway there boards are pretty high quality.

this is from the dirtypcbs website:
Where are my damn PCBs?
Your Gerbers will be sent to the factory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 10:00am China time. There's no point in doing it sooner because they'll just queue them at the factory... Rush orders are pushed hourly, on the hour.
The factory takes 3-8 days to manufacture the boards. They batch as they please, it's cheapest. If it's a holiday in China we'll let you know before you order!
Boards come back to us, we ship them the same day
Hong Kong Post takes 1 to 8+ weeks, depending on where you are
DHL/FEDEX/UPS take 2-5days, tracking is provided 12-48 hours after shipment


whats the point waiting the extra time when you can order direct.

I will recommend SeeedStudio PCB
https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html

Quite cheap. Fast DHL shipping, only two days arrive to Australia  :D
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: RazorX2014 on 13/Oct/2017 02:45:07 PM
What would you recommend?
i always use pcbway there boards are pretty high quality.

this is from the dirtypcbs website:
Where are my damn PCBs?
Your Gerbers will be sent to the factory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 10:00am China time. There's no point in doing it sooner because they'll just queue them at the factory... Rush orders are pushed hourly, on the hour.
The factory takes 3-8 days to manufacture the boards. They batch as they please, it's cheapest. If it's a holiday in China we'll let you know before you order!
Boards come back to us, we ship them the same day
Hong Kong Post takes 1 to 8+ weeks, depending on where you are
DHL/FEDEX/UPS take 2-5days, tracking is provided 12-48 hours after shipment


whats the point waiting the extra time when you can order direct.

I will recommend SeeedStudio PCB
https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html

Quite cheap. Fast DHL shipping, only two days arrive to Australia  :D

ive tried them before there boards are crap pcbway are much better
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Elaneo on 15/Jan/2018 05:41:00 AM
What would you recommend?
i always use pcbway there boards are pretty high quality.

this is from the dirtypcbs website:
Where are my damn PCBs?
Your Gerbers will be sent to the factory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 10:00am China time. There's no point in doing it sooner because they'll just queue them at the factory... Rush orders are pushed hourly, on the hour.
The factory takes 3-8 days to manufacture the boards. They batch as they please, it's cheapest. If it's a holiday in China we'll let you know before you order!
Boards come back to us, we ship them the same day
Hong Kong Post takes 1 to 8+ weeks, depending on where you are
DHL/FEDEX/UPS take 2-5days, tracking is provided 12-48 hours after shipment


whats the point waiting the extra time when you can order direct.


seeed studio fusion https://www.seeedstudio.com/fusion_pcb.html
ive ordered heaps from them, good quality boards, and never had a fault.
$25 US delivered for 10 boards 10cm x 10cm
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 18/Jan/2018 08:34:05 AM
I made a working TG16/PCE Plugin PCB.  Prototype uses a slot pulled from a broken console.  If anyone wants an original HuCard slot, www.gamedoctorhk.com sells HuCard slots (still attached to the daughterboard).

Matthias implemented automatic switching between TG16 and PCE data formats and it appears to work properly.  The TG16/PCE code does need a bit of work.  There are a couple of areas for immediate improvement:  the force system setting seems to only work with TG16 cards; and the overdump detection code is ineffective.  Checked the code and realized that the forceMapper controls the PCE/TG16 data when using the tg16 forceSystem setting.  Also there is no overdump detection so I'll be looking to implement it.

I'll see what I can do to fix the code but the improvements will come after I release the v0.24 SMS/GG firmware and v0.25 VBOY firmware.

 
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 18/Jan/2018 07:17:49 PM
Tested my prototype further and realized that there is an error in the published pinout.

The uppermost address lines (A19 and A18) are swapped.

SNES Pin 43 (BA2) connect to TG Pin 33 (A18)
SNES Pin 44 (BA3) connect to TG Pin 3 (A19)

I'll revise my schematic and board layout.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 24/Jan/2018 07:28:15 PM
Tested my prototype further and realized that there is an error in the published pinout.

The uppermost address lines (A19 and A18) are swapped.

SNES Pin 43 (BA2) connect to TG Pin 33 (A18)
SNES Pin 44 (BA3) connect to TG Pin 3 (A19)

I'll revise my schematic and board layout.

Awesome! I have a connector that I pulled from a broken PC-Engine so once you get into the testing phase I'd be more than willing to help out.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 21/Feb/2018 07:59:56 AM
Here's the working PCE/TG16 Plugin:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/20h0dnt.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/71n2c7.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/291mhdu.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/ejz9l3.jpg)

The shell was only a test with a leftover cutdown aftermarket front shell to make sure the PCB fit inside and cleared the internal standoff.  I'll have to find a donor SNES shell and cut a proper shell for the plugin.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 27/Feb/2018 05:10:09 AM
Looks awesome!
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: hernan43 on 09/Mar/2018 07:48:00 PM
This looks excellent! Are you going to sell these or offer the schematics up for download at all? I'd be happy to help test in any way I can.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 23/Mar/2018 10:04:43 AM
My revised prototype plugin PCB with support for Street Fighter II' arrived.  The PCB adds control of /WR to enable the SF2 mapper.  SF2 support requires using my PCE/TG16 firmware which will most likely be released as FW v0.26.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2nrhwmp.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/15ft5bk.jpg)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/23vnupc.jpg)

Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: Shwing on 23/Mar/2018 07:57:36 PM
Looks great! Can't wait to test one out.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 25/Mar/2018 09:17:24 PM
Here are pics of the Plugin PCB in an aftermarket SNES shell:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/34dinat.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/fl8ym0.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/fwitky.jpg)
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: panopticblue on 06/Apr/2018 02:17:02 PM
Hello, I would love to test one of these. Is there any way to purchase? I can provide my own card slot.
Title: Re: PC Engine/Turbografx plug in?
Post by: skaman on 21/Apr/2018 02:54:29 AM
@panopticblue - check your PMs.